Comment(s) on this article

Ray Flores Apr 11, 2009

Please tell me if this is correct or not. The Hand goess all the wya to the river and I bet. The opponent calls my bet and we have to show our cards. I show my cards, and he mucks his cards. Do I have the right, or does anybody have the right to see those mucked cards since the play was complete and even play?

Please settle this argument.
Thank you
Ray Flores

Sean Lind Apr 14, 2009

Ray, The rule here is that any player dealt in can request to see the hand of any player who reaches the showdown.

BUT

It is considered extremely poor etiquette to do so. I highly recommend you never request to see another player's hand, as it's really bad form.

Technically if you ask to see someone's hand, you're accusing them of cheating. The rule was created to allow someone to see player's hands if they suspected them of collusion. Other than that, you should never request to see a mucked hand.

rae Apr 18, 2009

iF i WANT TO RAISE...Can I say I bet your 2$ put it in and raise it 5$ throw in the rest after putting in the 2$
or another scenario
II say' your 2$ and 5 dollars more"
>>>?????
or can I say " your 2$ and , (hesitate while counting other player's money, and decide to bet all and say) the rest"

somebody said I cannot put in the $2 and then add my raise, but must put all the money in , in one motion.

Thanks
RAE

josh Apr 19, 2009

i was playing no limit texas before and i went all in and we were confused from there on, do all 5 cards hit the table from there or do bets continue after that an if they do continue an a much larger bet is placed an i win do i still get the whole pot even though i bet way less than my opponent

Sean Lind Apr 25, 2009

Hey Rae, sorry about the delay in answering, I was away on vacation.

As for your question, you're asking about the string betting rule. This rule states that you must make your bet in one motion, OR you must announce your bet verbally before acting.

There is such a thing as a "verbal string" as well..

Your first example "I bet your 2$ put it in and raise it 5$ throw in the rest after putting in the 2$"

This is a string bet. If you're going to come back for more chips you need to say the word "raise" BEFORE you move chips into play.

"II say' your 2$ and 5 dollars more"

This is iffy, I doubt this will be called a "verbal string", but it might. You might want to avoid saying this.

If you say "I raise" you can put in the $2, then you can come back, think and make your raise (in one more motion). BUT some poker rooms will only allow you to make a minimum raise if you do this.

To be sure, always say what you want to do. Think first, then say "I'll raise to $5". After you say that, you can do whatever you like with your hands, verbal is binding.

Sean Lind Apr 25, 2009

Hey Josh (again, sorry for the delay).

When you're all in, you sit with your cards down and wait until showdown to act.

If there is only one other player in the hand against you, all five cards (with their burn cards) are dealt.

If there is more than one player against you, those players will continue to play and bet as they would on each street.

When you're all in, you can only win what you put in. Meaning if you bet $500, and you get three callers. Your "main pot" is your $500, plus the $500 of the three other players (plus any blinds).

You can only win the $2,000, any additional betting to happen after you're all in goes into a side pot. Only the other players can win this pot.

DAN May 1, 2009

i have just learnt to play poker. if i bet of say 5$ then is it necessary for the other people to RAISE or BET ?

Sean Lind May 2, 2009

DAN, if you bet $5 then all other players must call the $5, raise to $10 (or more in No Limit), or Fold.

Adrian May 7, 2009

There are six people at the table. All have called the $400 big blind except the big blind. He says "All In" and adds $200 to the pot. I called the extra $200 required to match the All In, as did the three players behind me. but the last player said that the minimum raise was $400, the amount of the Big Blind, and that me and the others were each $200 short on our calls. My question is twofold. Is he right? Should he have spoken sooner?

Sean Lind May 7, 2009

Adrian, he's wrong, and he should have spoken sooner.

In this scenario, the all in was "short" of a full raise. This means that you (after having called the original $400) only get two choices:

A) Call for the additional $200
B) Fold

Unless the house rules state otherwise, a complete raise is needed to re-open betting. You are not allowed to put any more than $200 into the pot after the BB all in.

In some places, 50% of a complete raise in this scenario counts to re-open betting. This rule is technically incorrect, thus it's very rare these days.

Dave May 30, 2009

Big blind went all in and lost. Does the small blind switch to the next available player, or is it dead.

Sean Lind Jun 2, 2009

Dave,

In a tourney, the small blind would be dead, in a cash game you would got to two big blinds:

Hand 1

Player 1: Button
Player 2: SB
Player 3: BB
Player 4:
Player 5:
Player 6:

Big blind goes all in and loses, doesn't re-buy


Hand 2

Player 1:
Player 2: Button

Player 4: BB
Player 5: BB
Player 6:

Hand 3

Player 1:
Player 2:

Player 4: Button (with SB on top)
Player 5: SB
Player 6: BB

After this hand, everything returns to normal.

Jon Jun 2, 2009

Ok, i have been playing poker for almost 2 years, and same goes for my friend. We got an in argument over the betting structures of no limit hold em. I said that no matter what, pre-flop, flop, turn and river that when someone makes a bet the other persons raise has to atleast equal his bet. Example... I bet $20 and he wants to call my $20 and raise it $10. I told him that it's against the rules and that he would have to see my $20 and atleast raise me $20. His argument was that the rule is that you only have to do that pre-flop and after that you can raise whatever you want and don't have to altleast raise the previous betting amount. So can you please tell us which one is right.

Sean Lind Jun 2, 2009

Jon, Betting rules are betting rules, they don't change from street to street.

A minimum raise in NL is always equal to the previous bet, in addition to the amount of their bet, or previous raise.

Example

You bet $20
I have to raise to $40

If you bet $10
and I raise to $35

Your minimum raise is to $60

-Sean

STEVE F Jun 5, 2009

Hi , i was playing no limit cash down my local casino when 2 players hads a disagreement about a rule in no limit. one of the players asked how much was in the pot, to which the other player replied the dealer cant tell you that, the rest of the players agreed this was correct. the same player then said "well ok then i bet the pot". The dealer said this was allowed he added up the pot and bet that amount, is this correct that although you cant ask how much is in the pot , you can still find out by betting the pot.
thanks

Sean Lind Jun 5, 2009

Hey Steve,

The dealer can never tell you how much is in the pot in a No-Limit game.

If you say "I bet the pot", your bound to betting the amount that you believe the pot to be. The dealer still can not tell the player how much is in there.

In No-Limit, if a player says "I bet the pot", and puts out $50 when there's $60 in the pot, the bet is actually $50, unless another player in the hand wants to contest the amount. The word "Pot" is only binding in a Pot-Limit game.

Jo Anne Catlett Jun 5, 2009

Hi, We play in no-limit tournament group and someone mentioned a 50% rule for betting. I have looked all over the internet for a definition or example of this and have failed. Could you please explain it to me or at least tell me where I can find it in the betting rules for no-limit.

Thanks.

Sean Lind Jun 5, 2009

Hey Jo,

The 50% rule is to do with a raise re-opening betting. Although the rule is typically only used in Limit games, some places use it for No-Limit as well.

Personally, I don't think it has any place in a No-Limit game.

The Rule: If the amount of a player's all-in bet is more than 50% of a complete raise, the betting round is re-opened.

This means:

Player 1 bets $500
Player 2 goes all in for $800
Player 3 calls $800

If you are using the 50% rule, you now have the option to call, fold or raise. Without the 50% rule, you could only call or fold.

The reason I don't like this rule, is in essence, you're actually raising yourself if you're allowed to raise here. When the rule is in affect, players will purposely bet amounts like the example, allowing them to trap players in for those extra bets.

Scott Jun 6, 2009

Hi was playing a no limit home game and had a "discucssion"about a scenerio.
4 players invovled.
blinds 300 600
first to act moves all in with 1500
second to act calls 1500
third (S blind) moves all in with 2100 total.
Forth (B Blind) Calls 2100 (extra 1500).
Then second player moves all in.
I was under the inpression that second player was only allowed to call, and not re raise player 4 as player 4 had only called and not raised.
thank for any help.
Scott
Australia

Sean Lind Jun 9, 2009

Hey Scott, you're correct, player 2 can only call in this situation.

Once you've made your action on a street (player 2 calls the 1500), you are not allowed to raise unless betting is re-opened.

To re-open betting, there must be a complete raise made after your call. Since player three's all in wasn't complete (he had to of had 3000), betting has not been re-opened.

Player 4 has the option to fold, call or raise here. But once player 4 calls, the only thing player 2 can do is call or fold.

victoria Jun 9, 2009

Hello, i have a question. I had a situation today when we were 2 players left and the opponent have raised after the flop, before i called he have showed me the cards and he he had already 2 pairs of AK, however, i still called because i had flush draw. On the turn we both check ( remember his card are face up on the table), on the river K of hearts comes, that gives him full house and me a flush. At that point manager saw that opponent's cards were face up and she said that his hand is immediate fold if he showed it when the bets could still take a place. The was a big argument and we ended up splitting the pot. Please tell me was that correct or i was meant to take all pot or was it the opponent's winning.
Thank you

Sean Lind Jun 10, 2009

Ok Victoria, there are two answers to your question:

The Official answer: Most poker rooms these days have the rule that you are not allowed to show your cards at any time. If you do show your cards, your hand is immediately declaired dead, forfeiting the entire pot.

The Poker Answer: In the real world of poker, a player should be allowed to do whatever they want with their own hand (especially if it's heads up). All he did was give you an advantage, so in the real world, you should have lost the entire pot.

Because of the two answers being completely opposite, I think chopping the pot was a noble solution. The pit could have taken the whole pot away from the rightful winner, but that would steal the legitimately won pot from the best hand.

Scat Jun 15, 2009

I would like to know something

So, is it true that in No Limit, in preflop, when you raise, you have to bet the big blind and add the previous bet in Flop, turn and river you have to call the previous bet and add the previous bet.

Example (in preflop): the big bling bet 10$
So, if i raise i must bet 20$ and if someone wants to raise, does he have to bet a minimum of 30$?

Sean Lind Jun 16, 2009

Scat-man,

That's absolutely correct. To raise, you need to add on the same amount (or more) as the previous bet.

If the betting goes $5, Raise to $15

Your min raise is $25.

chomp Jun 16, 2009

How many bets are allowed per round in no-limit? For instance, post flop, if I bet $10 and get raised to $20, and I reraise back after everyone folds to $40, can he then reraise me? When does the raising end? Is there a rule that says you can only 3 bet or 4 bet? Thanks.

Sean Lind Jun 16, 2009

Chomp,

In no limit, there is no cap to the number of bets and raises allowed. In Limit the typical number of raises is 3 (4 in Vegas).

The only time I've seen a betting cap in a "No-Limit" game, is in Washington state. This is because the game is technically not No-Limit. By Law they're not allowed to spread No-Limit, so they play a spread limit game, where you can bet anywhere from the min bet, to the maximum allowed bet ($500 in Washington). There they have a raise cap.

Also, the betting cap is typically removed when the play is heads up.

William McFeely Jun 18, 2009

So me and two buddies remain on the table. ONe of my buddies and me are the only ones left in the hand. THe river comes and i have a gut feeling i have the inferior hand despite having pocket cowboys. So i decide to flip over my cards to see if can get a reaction from him, and trying to confirm whether or not to fold. Both of my friends said this action is illegal and gave me in unfair advantage. THe game was a simple 5 dollar buy in of no limit hold em at my friends house.

Thanks alot

Sean Lind Jun 18, 2009

The game was at your friend's house? That is absolutely allowed.

Since when did poker get filled with pansies? What you do with your cards is up to you at a poker table.

If it's heads up, and you want to show your cards, that's your choice.

As for "unfair advantage", that's complete BS. Firstly, he gets to see your cards, the stronger argument is that he gets the advantage from the move.

Tell your friends that if they want to cut out all angling from the game, they might as well just play scrabble. There are rules, and there is etiquette. As long as you're not breaking those, everything is fair game.

You should be allowed to angle all you like in poker, as long as you're not being disrespectful to the game, or the other players. Showing your cards is neither of those.

Jake Jul 20, 2009

I'm pretty sure that is illegal Sean, I remember the person who won the world series of poker a few years ago flipped over one card real quick and flipped it back over letting his opponent who he was heads up against see it and he got a warning from the people that worked there.

Sean Lind Jul 21, 2009

Jake,

That's true, in a casino you're not allowed to angle at the poker table. Showing a card is considered angling, thus it's not allowed.

This rule was created to save pits and dealers time. It's hard to make rulings on what is ok, and what isn't when it comes to angling, so they just cut it all off and say none is allowed.

Unfortunately, angling is a vital part of the game. In fact, it's a part of almost any sport, boxers, hockey players, football players, they all talk to the other players during play. They'll say anything they can to put their opponent on tilt, if it works, they get an edge.

This is why I said that showing his cards was okay, he was at a home game at a friends house. In that situation, you should all follow the rule of "Don't be a dick, but everything else is okay."

Richard Newman Jul 21, 2009

During a game I unwittingly folded out of turn as I couldnt not see the cards of the player two to my left as the player in between us (dealer) was raking chips from the previous round of betting.

I was small blind and had checked the flop on for ther to be a raise further round the table.

I was told at the time that I had to call the bet but the only reference I can find is to be issured a warning and sit out 1 hand.

Many thanks

Sean Lind Jul 22, 2009

Richard,

There is almost no possible poker situation in which a dealer can make a player without a hand put money into the pot.

Folding out of turn is bad, doing it on purpose should be penalized. If you do it by mistake, the dealer should tell you "Please wait until your turn to act". You say "I'm sorry, I didn't see his cards", and that's it.

There is no penalty for making this mistake, and you should never have to call the bet.

85bears Aug 2, 2009

Man I could really use an answer here. Playing with some guys at a home game, no-limit tournament. Guy one goes all in pre-flop. Guy two calls. I call. Check to the turn. Guy two checks...I push all in. Guy two folds and Guy one goes on to win on the river card in a bad beat. I start catching hell because I was supposed to keep both of us in (guy two and me) out of ettIquette since guy one was facing elimination. Later though when they did the same thing as I it was okay because he had the nuts hand I was told. But I had to let a guy draw cards against me in a tournament out of ettiquette? What's the real story?

Sean Lind Aug 4, 2009

85bears,

This is sort of a sticky subject. The old way of thinking is you should always check, as you want to eliminate the other player so you all most up the ladder in pay.

The new way of thinking is "I'm playing for first, and I don't care about anything else"

What you do with your hand, and your chips, is totally up to you. Chips are life, your friend who bet with the nuts was trying to get more chips for himself, you betting the dry side pot was isolating against the all in.

It's totally OK to do, and I wouldn't worry about it. People will get mad at you for it, but just tell them to play their own hand, not yours.

KaLeigh Harris Aug 5, 2009

When is a bet declared over or completed?

It was myself and another player in the hand after the flop. I had my chips in my hand, made a move to the table and said I bet... Before I could say my bet and release my chips, the other player said all in. Well, since I didn't have anything I wasn't going to call that because it would have put me all in. I took all my chips back. My reasoning was because I hadn't said a bet or taken my hands off of the chips. A few hands later then the guy starts griping about what I did and that I shouldn't have been allowed to take my chips back. What should I have done or been allowed to do?

Thanks

Sean Lind Aug 6, 2009

KaLeigh,

Once you say "bet" you're bound to make a bet. Verbal is binding in poker. Because you never said an amount, you are forced to bet only the minimum (the amount of the big blind).

One word of warning, there are some poker rooms where any chips brought across the betting line are in play, regardless of them being in your hand, or not.

jesse Aug 8, 2009

Cash question..

I was playing a cash game when a player said all in.

I called and he won the bet...fair enough...

I could see his chips but I I could not see some cash
He had folded under his chips that were "in play".

Turned out to be about 80 bucks I did not know he had.

What's the rule regarding cash on the table that's in
Play??

Does he have to tell the caller how much cash
Is involved in the bet and place the money over the line???

Thanks!

Sean Lind Aug 10, 2009

Jesse,

A couple of rules are in play here:

Firstly, you can not hide large chips, or cash, behind your other chips. If it was completely out of view, you can make a case to not have to call that amount.

If you just didn't notice, that's your mistake and you pay.

The other rule is that of cash playing. I've never seen anything but $100's play in a cash game, unless you're palying a smaller home game.

Either way, either know how much the other players have, or ask them for an approximate count before you call.

Steve Fisher Aug 12, 2009

Tourney Question

Playing in a tourney at my local casino the other night. An interesting thing happened between 2 players early in the tourney. They are both in a hand , when the flop comes down player A bets player B calls, on the turn player A bets again and playerB calls. When the river comes player A checks , player B who is now last to act folds. Player A then also mucks his cards and takes the pot without revealing his hand.
When the card room manager was called , he stated that player B had not checked the river so there was no showdown as player B was entilted to fold and player A was entilted to the pot without revealIng is cards.
Is this correct and if so how does the cardroom stop collusion considering the tourney is self dealt.
Your advice will help thanks Steve

Sean Lind Aug 12, 2009

Steve,

Once player B folds, technically there's no reason for player A to show their hand, they have the only live hand left and have already won the pot.

I don't see this as being a problem at all. If two player wanted to collude, all they would have to do is have player A move all in on the river, player B thinking for a while before folding.

I have no problems with what happened, but I think player B is an idiot, I've seen many people do this, throwing away the best hand. Typically it will be that player B was on a draw, if player A is on the same draw, with lower cards, player B has the win. Never throw your hand away until you see that you've lost.

Daniel Aug 21, 2009

tourney question, no limit texes hold em
blinds are 100/200

there was an argument about when betting was suppose to freeze, please settle this.

player A bets 600, players B, C fold. Player D goes all in for 800. Now I'm Player E and I want to go all in with 3200 but am told i cant because since D could not double the bet that all betting has frozen. I contest since i havn't acted, i could reopen the betting. what is the rule? betting freezes or it can be reopen because a player has not acted?

Sean Lind Aug 21, 2009

Daniel,

Since you have not acted yet, you have full option. You can call (800), fold (0) or raise (if I'm not mistaken a min raise would be completing the bet, since the 800 is not 50% of a complete bet. This makes a min raise 1200, or you can raise any amount more than that.)

If you just call, betting is not re-opened for player A, but if you raise, betting is re-opened, player A could re-raise, fold or call.

Bill Aug 23, 2009

Hi

I would like clarity on the following scenario. We are playing No limit hold 'em.
Player 1 bets $100,
Player 2 raises to $300
Player 3 goes all in $355

What are player 1's options (other than folding). i.e can he also go all-in or can he only call player 3's bet, because player 3 "under-raised"

thanks

Bill

Sean Lind Aug 24, 2009

Bill, since player one has acted already, he will not get "option" again, unless betting is re-opened.

Now, player 2 raises (this re-opens betting). Player 3 goes all in (not a complete raise, thus this did not re-open betting for player 2).

Player 1 can do anything he wants, fold, call or re-raise.

If player 1 folds or just calls, player 2 can only call or fold.

Tim Aug 25, 2009

Is there ever a situation when one player is all in and another player calls but still has chips left, that either player does not have to turn over and show his cards before the rest of the cards are laid out. Does the person all in have to flip his cards over and if he does, does the remaining player that call required to show his cards also. This is an all in bet before the flop situation

Sean Lind Aug 25, 2009

Tim,
A player having chips remaining has no bearing on this situation.

When you're all in in a tournament, you're required to show your hand immediately.

When you're all in in a cash game (unless the room has a rule that states otherwise) you only need to show your cards at the showdown (or you can muck and never show if you feel so inclined)

Terry Aug 25, 2009

Playing a home cash game of holdem. I asked the small blind pre-flop how much he had left. The small blind said something like 7 bucks. I told him I am going to put him all in. The big blind said "call". After the big blind called the small blind player said "oh yea i have another 15 bucks (not sure of amount) in the pot already I forgot to get change.

I said well I'm not going to put you all in because you had more money than you said you had in front of you. There was a big arguement. The big blind raised the small blind all in and won the pot.

Another arguement started between me and the big blind. He said I owed him at least the 7 bucks(not sure) bet pre-flop.

I say no because before any action can take place the POT MUST BE RIGHT. In my opinion the small blind mis-represented his hand.

Am I responsible for the 7 bucks bet originally that I put the small blind in? Or what is your opinion about the entire hand.

Sean Lind Aug 26, 2009

Terry,

... this situation is complete ****ed up.

As I see it, there is only one solution.

Firstly, a player is not required to answer you when you ask them how much they have left in their stack. If they choose not to answer, it's the dealers job to count down their stack.

In a home game you typically don't have a dealer who's not in the hand, so the players really need to be more accommodating here.

Regardless, you asked how much, he said 7 dollars. You then said you put HIM all in. This means you are bound to a bet of $7.

The big blind now says "call", this binds him to calling your $7 bet.

Now, the small blind remembers he has change coming. At this point everyone in the pot was playing under the assumption that it was a $7 bet, with the small blind being all in. So that is what we are going to keep it as.

The small blind gets his change, but that change is held "aside" and the player is treated as if he's all in. You now play a side pot against the big blind.

I'm not sure how the big blind decided he was allowed to move all in for the rest of the money pre-flop.

Once he does that, he has completely fucked up the betting, since he had originally called. He's now raising himself, which is not allowed.

If he believes his all-in raise should stand, then you should be able to take your $7 bet back.

You owe him nothing.

KERRIE PAGE Aug 27, 2009

Playing a home cash game of holdem. Two players left in the hand, the river is dealt player 1 bets, player 2 calls allin player I calls, player 1 says I have 2 pairs, player 2 says its yours another player says he wants to see player 2 cards, does he have to show them?

Nikola N. Aug 28, 2009

What is the rule in this situation:
Flop betting round, No limit Hold'em> player-A bets 60, player-B goes all in with 80 chips. What is the minimum raise available to player-C, is it 120 or 140? Do we apply the 50% rule? Is it 120 in this case and if player-B went all in with 91 min bet would be 151?
Thanks,
Nikola

Sean Lind Aug 28, 2009

Kerrie,

Since it's a home game, no.

There is a rule in casinos where you can request to see a called hand at the showdown. This rule is there in case you believe the players are cheating via collusion.

When you ask to see someone's hand, you're accusing them of cheating.

In the world of poker, it's considered very poor form to ever ask to see a hand.

If it was my home game, I'd chew the player out, if they understood why I was upset, ok, if they argued it I'd simply ask them to leave.

Sean Lind Aug 28, 2009

Nikola,

This situation is one of those "check with the room you play in" sort of rules. There is no standard way it's done, but for the most part in a No-Limit game, the third player's min raise is actually the option to complete the all-in bet to a full raise.

Player 1 bets $100
Player 2 goes all in for $140
Player 3 min-raises (completes) to $200.

Most places do not use a 50% rule for No-Limit games, meaning the above scenario will stay the same, even if the all in bet was to $199. To complete it would only cost $1.

Again, this can and will change depending on where you're playing, but as far as I know, this is the most common ruling. The reasoning is straight forward: A complete raise must be made to re-open betting, otherwise the original better is basically raising himself.

Even though player 3 only added $1 to the all in bet, Player 1 is still facing a complete raise on their action.

Chezz Aug 29, 2009

This is referring to the question right above, Nikola's question if player 3 min raises (completes) to $200 can player 1 now raise If he could would his minimum raise be $100 more for a total of $300.

My other question is I was playing in a home cash game and the follow situation came up. The blinds were $1 and $2 and the person under the gun moved all in for $3 what can the other players do including the small and big blind. I think it is the same answer you gave Nikola, but I just wanted to make sure.

Great work Sean,
Chezz

Chezz Aug 29, 2009

I am playing in a home cash game and another player and I are all in. We also play you can ask the other person to take insurance (usually "run it" two or three times). My question is after showing my hand am I rude to want to see my opponent's hand before deciding how many time to "run it".

Sean Lind Aug 31, 2009

Chezz,

Your first question: Playing 1 can re-raise to a minimum of $300.

Your second question is the same. You can call $3, complete to $4, or raise any amount more than that.

Finally; No, if you're in a game where you have the option to run the board multiple times, you can't make that choice without knowing your opponents hand.

Either you both need to open your hands, or the choice needs to be made in the dark without either person knowing what they're up against.

If someone sees your hand, then asks for a deal without showing their own, they're being the jerk.

bouba Sep 6, 2009

Hey guys i need a professional answer for this situation.
the game is $1/$2 NL ,4 players in the hand before the flop A,B,C,D , Player A small blind when action come`s back to him he raise to $7 ,player B and C call, player , player D raise to $27, player A gos all in for $44,player B and C call, the question can player D raise or go all in or call the $44?
thanks
NB:I want to know the theory in this situation

Sean Lind Sep 7, 2009

Ok
Player A raises $5 to $7
(Betting is re-opened)
Player B and C call
Player D re-raises $20 to $27
(betting is re-opened)
Player A goes all-in $17 more to $44

Now, player A's all in did not re-open betting, since his raise was not complete. He would have to have $3 more to make a complete raise.

Players B and C could re-raise here. But once they just call, player D can only call or fold, he's no longer allowed to raise.

Pete Sep 19, 2009

I am still confused with oversized chips with out mention of raising?

1. is tall stack of chips and one big chip the same and both can be regarded as oversized
2. pls. give me the distinction if there is any if oversized chips where pushed to bet without mentioning the word "raise"

thanks!
Pete

Pete Sep 19, 2009

In addition to bouba's question what would be the minimum raise of B & C after A goes all -in for $44.
Thanks
Pete

Sean Lind Sep 21, 2009

Pete.

When you put multiple chips into a pot, it's always a raise. When you put one oversized chip (without saying raise) it's always a call.

If the bet is $25 and you throw in a $100 chip, that's just a call.

If the bet is $25 and you throw in four $25 chips, that's a raise.

If you say raise first, you can throw just one chip. If you say raise and the amount, you can do anything you want.

Sean Lind Sep 21, 2009

Pete,

Player D raised $20.

A complete re-raise would be to $47

When duder goes all in for $44 a min-re-raise would be to $47, simply completing the bet.

Pete Sep 21, 2009

Thanks a lot Sean for your answers,but I do have another one.
SB=$20
BB=$40
Under the gun=$80 straddle what are the only options of the next player before the flop?If its $80 then the betting is raised to $80 before the flop.after the flop does the betting goes back to $40 small increment?

Tashi Sep 22, 2009

Hi Sean,

I have few queries related to No Limit Texas Hold’em. As I understand the difference between No Limit and Limit Texas Hold’em is as follows:

1.Blinds for No Limit:
•Table Stakes : $5/$10
•Small Blind : $5
•Big Blind : $10

2. Min and Max Bet:
•Minimum bet for all rounds in No Limit Texas Hold’em is Big Blind i.e. Higher Stake Value = Big Blind
•Maximum Bet = Total amount of chips on their stack on the table

3.Raises:
•No Caps on Number of raises in No Limit
•Minimum raise value = Last Bet + Higher Stake Value of the table
•Maximum raise = Size of total amount of chips

4.Example:
•Player 1 = Bets $100
•Player 2 = All-In $ 140
•Player 3 = What options will he/she receive
•Fold/Call(140)/ Raise(200) – Is this true for No Limit?

5.Is there any other difference between No Limit and Limit besides this

Thanks,
Tashi

jero Sep 22, 2009

Hey Sean!

What happens if there is a table with three players, player A, player B and player C. Player A goes all in and player B calls, then player C raises. Player B has enough chips to call on player C but instead of calling he says he is only going for the pot that player A is going for. Is that possible? Can he chose to go only for the pot that is player A's all in? Isn´t he forced to call in order to continue by creating a side pot which will not be available to player A?

Sean Lind Sep 22, 2009

Hey Pete,

You are correct. Min bet (or the only bet in Limit) is always the size of the big blind on the flop, regardless of any straddles.

Sean Lind Sep 22, 2009

Jero,

That is not allowed. As long as Player C made a legitimate raise, Player B must call the full amount to be eligible for the main pot. The raise by player is is known as an "Isolation raise"

Sean Lind Sep 22, 2009

Tashi, your number 1 and two are right on, but #3 has some errors

3.Raises:
•No Caps on Number of raises in No Limit

This is true in a true No-Limit game. Some places are not allowed to play No-Limit by law, so they actually play Spread Limit (this is true in Washington). In this scenario, even though everything seems like No-Limit there is a betting cap ($500) and there are a maximum of 3 raises.

•Minimum raise value = Last Bet + Higher Stake Value of the table

The minimu raise in No-Limit is always equal to calling + the amount of the previous raise.

I bet $100
You raise to $250
My min raise is (250+150) $400

As for your example, that is absolutely correct.

Tashi Sep 22, 2009

Hi Sean,

Thanks for the answers however I am a little confused:

Table Stake : $50/$100

Small Blind = $50
Big Blind = $100

All betting rounds will be played with Higher Increment i.e. $100
Now Suppose Flop is dealt:

Player 1:
Fold/Check/ Bets($100)
Bets - $100

Player 2:
Fold/Call($100)/Raise To ($200)
Rasie To ($200)
Here the value of Raise will again be
increment of Higher Stake Value

Player 3:
Fold/Call($200)/ Rasie To ($300)
However Player Raises using the
Option to increase the Raise
amount
Raise To ($350)

Player 4:
Fold/Call($350)/Rasie To (350+150)
As Calling + Last Rasie i.e 150

Am I right in this example

Thanks

Tashi Sep 22, 2009

Hi Sean,

Another Example for the same

Table Stake : $10/$20

Small Blind = $10
Big Blind = $20

All betting rounds will be played with Higher Increment i.e. $20
Now Suppose Flop is dealt:

Player 1:
Fold/Check/ Bets($20)
However the player here can increase the bet to the maximum number of chips they have on the table
So here the Player Bets ($120)

Player 2:
Fold/Call($120)/Raise To(120+120)
Raise To (240)

So Is this true to say that :

"The minimum raise amount in No-Limit must be at least as much as the previous bet or raise in same round i.e. In other words is always equal to calling + the amount of the previous raise or bet"

Thanks a ton for your help

Thanks

Yangzum Sep 23, 2009

Hey Sean,
I have a question rathera clarification using the terminologies Raise and Raise To
Let us take an example:

1> Player A: Small Blind $5
2> Player B: big Blind $10


3> Now Player A will get the following options:

If we use 'Raise' then it means 5 + 10 i.e. Call amount + previous bet or raise
therefore: Fold/Call(5)/Raise(15)

and

If we use 'Raise To' then it means 5+5+10 i.e. Amount betted on that round + Call amount + Previous bet or rasie
therefore: Fold/Call(5)/Raise To(20)

Please let me know if my undesratnding is right or no....

thank you

Sean Lind Sep 24, 2009

Tashi,

It looks like you got it correct.

Take your second example:

Player bets $120
Min raise = $240

Now if someone had bet $20
Then someone raised to $120
Min raise after that would be $220.

-s

Sean Lind Sep 24, 2009

Yangzum,

You are correct sir. When raising if you said "raise" technically you're saying you raise by that amount.

$5 bet to you

You say "Raise $10" the total bet is $15.

This gets confusing, because most people mean "raise to $10" but just say "raise $10".

As a rule of thumb it's always best to say "raise to" or "Raise, $10 total" or as they say it in the states "Raise, $10 straight".

pete Sep 24, 2009

Hi Sean.

I forgot to mention that my last question is about limit hold'em...so at 40/80 limit
SB=$20
BB=$40
under the gun straddles at $80, so the next player's option is Fold/call $80 or raised to $160. is that correct?this is before the flop.after the flop the betting start at $40 is this also correct,then of course betting goes to $80 increment at the turn & river.
Just for clarification. thanks for your time.you are doing us a great favor!

Pete Sep 24, 2009

Hi Sean,

Re: Advance showing of a hand

It was during the last betting round on the river.It was heads-up the first to act thought it was no more betting and without his knowing he shows his hand.regardless of his hand, the other player said i need to bet.so what is the best decision here that would be fair to both players?Is it for them to finish the betting or what?
Thanks!
Pete

Tashi Sep 25, 2009

Sean,
Just one more clarification on Raise and All-In Option.

Consider the following:

oPlayer 1
 Fold/Check/ Bet(100)
 Bet(100)

oPlayer 2:
 Fold/Call(100)/All-In(140)
 All-In(140)

oPlayer 3:
 Fold/Call(140)/ Raise(140+40)

In the above example are the following right:
1> options to all the Players All-In Raise To
2> The amount for All-In and Raise To

Thanks

Tashi Sep 25, 2009

Sean,
Refering to the above example related to All-In. In this scenario true:

•Table Stake : $50/$100
•All betting rounds will be played with Higher Increment i.e. $100
•Flop is Dealt

oPlayer 1
 Fold/Check/ Bet(100)
 Bet(100)
oPlayer 2:
 Fold/All-In(50)
 All-In(50)
oPlayer 3:
 Fold/Call(100)/ Raise(200)
Looking forward for your reply....
And thanks a ton Sean.. Your answers made everything so very clear

Sean Lind Sep 25, 2009

Pete,

a straddle is a blind raise, it doesn't raise the stakes of the hand.

SB -$2
BB - $4
STDL - $8

To call = $8, to raise = $12

As for showing the cards, if it's a mistake the best option is to continue action as you would have if he hadn't shown his hand.

Sean Lind Sep 25, 2009

Tashi,

If someone makes an incomplete raise all-in, the min raise is to complete the raise.

Player 1 bets $100
Player 2 goes all in for $140
Player 3 min raises to $200

Player 1 can now call, fold or raise. Min raise will be to $300.

In your second scenario you are correct. An all in for less than the bet does not change the calling or raising amount for any players yet to act.

Pete Sep 26, 2009

Sean,

So in addtion to your answer to my question
SB=2
BB=4
!st=8 straddle
2nd player raises=12
3rd player re-raise=16
4th player re-raise=20 capped
If a bet and 3 raises is allowed is this the correct way of capping?

Thanks I see to it that my capslock are fixed,Hi Brian lol

Pete Sep 27, 2009

Hi SEan,

I was just confused with scot's scenario maybe because of his designation for the players. I figure it out myself if this is correct.

SB=300
BB=600
1st=raised to 1500
2nd=call 1500
then....
SB or 3rd player raised all-in = 2100
BB or 4th player call=2100
1st player call=2100
2nd player=2100 of course cannot raised his only option was to call/fold.
BB=600 previously has the option but he just called that is why 1st & 2nd has no option to raised.had BB raised 1st & 2nd have to act accordingly.Right?

Sean Lind Sep 28, 2009

Pete,

Your numbers are correct in the straddle hand, when it comes to the cap, the straddle does not count as a raise.

In a 3-bet cap, a typical cap at a $4-$8 game is to $16, if there's a straddle, it gets capped at $20.

As for your NL scenario, you have it all correct. The all in was a short-raise, not re-opening action, unless someone who still has action re-opens the betting.

Sean Lind Sep 30, 2009

Hey Robert,

Here's how it should work:

Blinds $500/$1000
The player in the big blind only has $800, and is all in for that.

Player under the gun must call the full amount of the big blind, even though the big blind only had $800. So the UTG player must call $1000 or raise to $2000 min.

robert t. Sep 30, 2009

I play in a poker league (free poker). We play no limit tourny style. they say when a player raises all in but does not have enough for a complete bet, the next players must still complete the bet.
example: blinds 300/600
player 1 limps in for 300
player 2 goes all in for 400
player 3 if he calls must call 600 if he raises
it must be min. of 1200.
player 1 then must call the 600, raise to 1200 min., or go out.
is this correct?
I think call should be to 400 and the raise to 800.

Pete Oct 1, 2009

Robert,
I think for 600/1200 game,yes the blinds are SB=300
BB=600
if you say limps
P1=600 (not 300)
P2 goes all-in for 400
P3 options are: fold,call 600,or raise to 1200 which is the min. raise

since the betting was open to player 1 then he got all the options: fold.call 1200 or raise to 1800 which is the new minimum raise or go all-in for his remainning chips

I hope im not mistaken.Just tryin to help

Pete Oct 1, 2009

this is assuming that P3 raises to 1200, and SB & BB called 1200,then the scenario i have mentioned is true.

so SB,BB and player 1 has the same options.

had the SB or BB re-raises thats another story

Tashi Oct 5, 2009

Hi Sean,
I have questions related to Pot Limit:

Example 1:

Player 1 - SB - 5
Player 2 - BB - 10
Player 3 - Call - 10
Player 4 - Call 10

Player 1 - Fold/Call(5)/Raise To(20)
Here raise to is 20 because (Call amount +Amount on Table + Previous Bet/Raise)

Now the Pot is 35
therefore the maximum the Player can rasise would be the pot amount .

Now the question here is : After player clicks on Max Rasie the value on Rasie to would be:
Option1: rasie To(Pot amount + call amount+ amount on table+ previousbet/raise) = 55
Option 2: rasie to (Pot amount + call amount+ previosu bet/raise) = 50
What would be the right option.

Example2:
Player 1 - Fold/Call(30)/Raise to(100)
In this case Raise To(Call 30 + amount on table 40 + previous bet/raise 30)

Now pot amount is 190

Player 1 - Table Balance is 165

what would be the rasie to amount that the player would get
Option 1: raise to (100+190)
but Raise to 290 isnot possible hence
Rasie to (165+ 40)
Table baqlance + aount on table
therefore Rasie to (205)

Example 3:
Player 1 - joined in the middle of the game and had to pay the penalty as Big Blind

After that in preflop player get option
Fold/Check/Raise To(20)
Rasie To(amount on table _ previous bet / raise)

the pot amount is 30

now when player clciks on raise my pit the maimum the player could rasie would be Option 1: Rasie to ( 20 + 30)
Option 2: Rasie To(40)

which option is right I am so confused with diffrent amounts coming all the time....

Please help me understand the same
Looking forward foru ur reply....

Sean Lind Oct 5, 2009

Tashi,

You are making this wayyyyy too difficult.

When you're first to bet, you're max bet in a PL game is equal to the pot.

Pot: $100
Max Ber: $100

If there is a bet, or any number of bets, the easiest way to figure out pot is this:

Triple the last bet, then add everything else on the table:

Pot: $100
P1: Bets $50
P2: Calls $50

to you:

($50*3)+($100+$50) = $300

That's all you need to know.

Well... in some PL games, the numbers are faked to speed the game up. For instance if you're playing a $2-$5 PL game, often people will count the $2 small blind as $5 when calculating a pot sized raise.

This keeps bets in $5 increments making a pot sized bet $20 instead of $17.

The math gets tricky for most when the numbers are:
Pot: $132
P1: Bets $47
P2: Calls $47

If you have to sit and calculate numbers for 10 seconds on every street (or bet), it really slows down the game.

Pete Oct 5, 2009

Sean, I think Robert is waiting for the confirmation if my answers to his questions are right,

Thanks a lot for helping us you are a great man.

Sean Lind Oct 5, 2009

LoL Pete, you did such a good job answering I figured I didn't need to.

Robert,

What Pete said.

Pete Oct 5, 2009

Sean
Well that's the difference between an amateur and a Master that's why we rely on you.LOL thanks again

steve Oct 9, 2009

At a home game if a player misreads his hand for example, player 1 goes all in and player 2 calls. player 1 catches trips and player 2 is waiting for the flush. Player 2 catches the flush and player 1 thinks he's beat. The river comes and player 1 catches a full house and doesn't realize it until the person next to him says you have a boat and then player 1 realizes it and calls out the boat. Player 1 never threw his hand down they were layed up on the table. Who wins? One more question if you are heads up with a person one player is all in the other isn't do both parties have to show their cards. If not what if the person who is all in asked the other player to flip them does that person have to flip?

Sean Lind Oct 9, 2009

Steve,

If a player turns their hand over at showdown, putting it face up on the table, it doesn't matter what they think or say they have. "Cards speak" is the saying.

The best hand always wins, regardless of what players think or say.

But note, it is against the rules to purposely miscall your hand.

As for the all in, in a tournament both players have to show when one is all in. In a cash game neither player has to show, until showdown. At the showdown, if you don't want to show you can just muck your hand.

To win the pot you must show two cards. Also the player who made the last aggressive action (I.E Player 1 moved all in on the river, Player 2 called, making Player 1 having made the last aggresive action) must show their hand first.

In almost all poker rooms you can request to see any players hand at showdown, as long as you were dealt in at the table. Although this is allowed, it's considered extremely poor etiquette, and should never be done.

Trip Oct 12, 2009

Sean,

I am not very clear on the pot limit - maximum raise to fuctionality:
I read the formuae for the max rasie to value is :
3L + Trail + Starting Pot

L= Last Wager
T = Trail = Bets before the previous bet
Starting Pot = amount of pot before the current betting round.

As i understand you have used the similar formulae to take the value of Maximum rasie to value
1] P1 = 10
P2 = 20
P3 = 25
P4 = ???
Starting Pot = 30

Therefore options for P1 would be Fold, Call(25), Rasie To

Now Maximumu Rasie to (3*25) + 30 + 30
Max Raise to = 135

Now cold you tell me what and how would i derivethe formulae for this scenario

P1 = 30
P2 = 65
P3 = All- In 20
P4
what would the value of Maximum rasie to Value for P4 when starting Pot = 50 ?

Trip Oct 12, 2009

In Case of All-In scenario taking into consideration another Example to support/clarify would be:

The order players sitting is in clockwise direction is P1 = Dealer , P2,P3, P4,P5,P6,P7,P8

P1 - Dealer
P2 = Small Blind = 5
P3 = Big Blind = 10
P6 = Dead Blind = 15 - Joined in the middle of the game and missed blinds
P7 = Big Blind - Joined in the middle of the game = 10
P8 = P7 = Big Blind - Joined in the middle of the game = 10

P4 = Starts the round = Raise To 20
P5 = All-In 15
P6 = Min Raise To (Amount on table + Call Amount + Previous Bet or Rasie ) = 30

Now according to the formuale let me know what would be the Max Rasie to Formulae and its value?

Will it consider
Last wager as 20 i.e P4 and then the trail as all the amount in the pot - amount on the table

or will it Consider P5...

Please help me understand the same

Sean Lind Oct 13, 2009

Trip.

You're correct in your formula of triple the last bet + everything else.

In a case where the last bet was short, like in your $20 all in, the formula has to be changed just slightly.

Basically, this is how pot limit works.

You put in your full call first.
THen you add up everything on the table.
That amount you can add to the call.

In the case of a short all in, you use the same formula as before, but instead of 3*the last bet, you need to go 3*the last complete bet. so:

P1 = 30
P2 = 65
P3 = All- In 20
P4
what would the value of Maximum rasie to Value for P4 when starting Pot = 50 ?

(3*65)+30+20+50 = $295

same as: (30+65+20+65+50) + 65 = 295

cruz Oct 15, 2009

Scenario. Player A has 10$ Player B has 20$ Player C has 50$

Player A bets 2$
Player B Raises to 6$
Player C calls the 6$
Player A goes all in for 8$ more

Question. Does Player B have the ability to go all in with his 14$ left? Why or why not?

Sean Lind Oct 15, 2009

Cruz,

Firstly, you only have to post your Q on one article, regardless of the article I'll come find it.

Player B (and player C) are allowed to go all in if they wish.

In order to re-open betting a complete action must be made.

Player A bet $2
Player B raised $4 to $6
Player C called

Now all players have acted, but since player B raised, betting has been re-opened for Player A.

If player A just calls, the betting round will be over. In order to re-open betting, player A must make a complete raise of $4 or more.

Player A goes all in for $8 more

Player B (and C) can now fold, call or re-raise.

If player A had gone all in for a total of $9 or less, Player B (and C) would only be allowed to call.

cruz Oct 15, 2009

Sean, sorry for the double post.

would you mind emailing me at hdcruz at cox dot net. I want to forward you this entire argument where people are confused as to what can be done in no limit.

Beachmammoni Oct 16, 2009

Sean,

I appreciate your patience and insight regarding the full bet rule. Obviously this is a confusing issue since so many people have questioned it. Now to my clarifying question:

Player A bets 10
Player B calls 10
Player C goes all in for 11

Is player A's betting action reopened so that Player A can raise all-in? Or, because Player C 's all in bet was not a full raise (10), can Player A only call for 1?

I've read this entire thread and think I've gotten confused between you answer to Adrian:

"Adrian May 7, 2009

There are six people at the table. All have called the $400 big blind except the big blind. He says "All In" and adds $200 to the pot. I called the extra $200 required to match the All In, as did the three players behind me. but the last player said that the minimum raise was $400, the amount of the Big Blind, and that me and the others were each $200 short on our calls. My question is twofold. Is he right? Should he have spoken sooner?

Sean Lind May 7, 2009

Adrian, he's wrong, and he should have spoken sooner.

In this scenario, the all in was "short" of a full raise. This means that you (after having called the original $400) only get two choices:

A) Call for the additional $200
B) Fold

Unless the house rules state otherwise, a complete raise is needed to re-open betting. You are not allowed to put any more than $200 into the pot after the BB all in.

and your answer to cruz. Thanks again.

Beach

Beachmammoni Oct 16, 2009

This is the quote from Section 14 (NL and PL) Holdem of Roberts Rules of Poker (http://www.homepokertourney.com/docs/rulebook/poker-rulebook-roberts-6.pdf) that I think is correct.

NO-LIMIT RULES
1. The number of raises in any betting round is unlimited.
2. All bets must be at least equal to the minimum bring-in, unless the player is going
all-in. (A straddle bet sets a new minimum bring-in, and is not treated as a raise.)
The minimum bet remains the same amount on all betting rounds.
3. All raises must be equal to or greater than the size of the previous bet or raise on that
betting round, except for an all-in wager. A player who has already acted and is not
facing a fullsize wager may not subsequently raise an all-in bet that is less than the
minimum bet (which is the amount of the minimum bring-in), or less than the full
size of the last bet or raise. (The half-the-size rule for reopening the betting is for
limit poker only.)
4. “Completing the bet” is a limit poker wager type only, not allowed at big-bet poker.
For example, if a player bets $100 and the next player goes all-in for $140, a player
wishing to raise must make the total bet at least $240 (unless going all-in).
5. Multiple all-in wagers, each of an amount too small to qualify as a raise, still act as a
raise and reopen the betting if the resulting wager size to a player qualifies as a raise.
- 25 -
Example: Player A bets $100 and Player B raises $100 more, making the total bet
$200. If Player C goes all in for less than $300 total (not a full $100 raise), and
Player A calls, then Player B has no option to raise again, because he wasn’t fully
raised. (Player A could have raised, because Player B raised.)

Thanks again.

Beach

Sean Lind Oct 16, 2009

Beach,

The rules you posted are highly confusing, and really poorly worded. Also I believe he's made a mistake with part 4.

Either way, he's saying the same thing I am, exactly what I answered in my to Cruz.

If you have already acted, you can NEVER raise unless another player makes a complete raise after you, period.

A complete raise is always = the amount of the call + the amount of the previous raise.

WSOP rookie Oct 18, 2009

Just want to clarify re-raising.
Blinds are 300-600.
UTG raises to 2200, a raise of 1600.
Action folds back to the big blind. If they are going to reraise, what is the minimum amount of the their total bet back to the UTG player?

Roger Oct 19, 2009

No limit poker sm blind $1 big blind $2 3rd player raised to $20 4th call 20 5ft call 20
6th all in $30 7th fold sm blind all in $100 can sm blind raise after 6th player all in for 30

Sean Lind Oct 19, 2009

Rookie,

the min re-raise will be adding on the same amount of the raise.

SB- 300
BB - 600
UTG - 2200 (1600 raise)

BB re-raise min - 3800

Sean Lind Oct 19, 2009

Roger,

SB - $1
BB - $2
UTG - $20
P4 - $20
P5 - $20
P6 all in - $30
P7 - Fold

The small blind had not acted yet, so no matter what happened ahead of him, he still has full action and can re-raise. If the small blind called, and the big blind just called as well, UTG would NOT be allowed to re-raise, just fold or call the extra $10.

Pete Oct 25, 2009

Sean,

I agree with you completing the bet is not for limit games specially with 50% rule,once the raise is more than 50% then you don't have to complete it.

3/6 (limit game)

Blinds $1 and $3
First to act limps 3
P4 all-in $5 then
next P5 options are fold,call $5 or raise to $8
never complete to $6

so Beach part 4 is wrong, completing the bet is actually for no-limit games without the 50% ruling.

Sean Lind Oct 27, 2009

Pete,

That's correct. If the Limit bet is less than $50 then the player's option is call, fold or complete. Equal or more than $50 and it's a standard raise on top of the all in amount.

Beachmammoni Nov 1, 2009

FYI - The item #4 that y'all seem to believe is incorrect is pasted from Robert's Rules of Poker 6th ed.

Sean Lind Nov 2, 2009

Beach,

Yeah, it's incorrect in a few ways. One, that there is bet completing in No-Limit, but two that in Limit you must complete the bet if the all in is less than 50% of the whole bet, while you must raise, in accordance to that rule, if the bet is more than 50%.

Really though, why would you ever raise the min? So the point is almost moot

Pete Nov 3, 2009

Beach what Sean is trying to say is the exact rule,yes there is completing the bet on no limit,just like in your #4 scenario

P1 bet $100
P2 all-in $140
P3 options are fold.call $140,complete to $200 thats it.(not $240)
(because P2 posted a raise which is not a full raised)

Sean is also correct because i forgot there is also completing in limit games when the raised is less than 50% of the bet

say 3/6 limit

P1 bet $3
P2 call $3
P3 all in $4(raised not complete or 50%)
P4 options are fold,call $4,complete to $6 thats it.

-- had P3 all-in for $5 (raise more than 50%)
then P4 options are fold, call $5 , raised to $8.....I hope this helps you