Loading...Sunday, Sept. 21, 2008
Other Odd Poker Rules and Exceptions
By Sean Lind
In the game of poker, there are hundreds of odd situations that can occur and numerous arcane rules that may or may not apply to them.
When money is on the line, however, there needs to be a set, fair way to deal with all of these anomalies.
Plenty of players across poker forums, comment boards and in the real world are always looking for answers as to these odd situations, so the goal of this article is to create a definitive list of rules to resolve these conundrums.Without further ado here is my list of odd situations and Texas Hold'em poker rules.
All-In Situations
Two players all-in for different amounts: In this scenario, you take the amount of the smaller stack from the big stack into the pot, returning the difference to the big-stack player.
Short stack all-in against two players: When a short stack is all-in against two larger stacks, the blinds, short stack, plus the amount of the short stack from each larger stack is placed in the main pot. All players are eligible to win this pot.
The two players on the side are now free to play and bet as usual into a side pot, which only they are eligible to win. (This means there can be two winners in the hand - a side pot and a main pot winner.)
Multiple players all-in: When multiple players are all-in, you must make multiple side pots. Make a main pot as described above. After you've done that, repeat the process with the next-smallest stack.
Continue to do this until all stacks are accounted for. Make sure to keep track of who is eligible for what pots.
Balancing Tables
If you're running a tournament with two tables, and table 1 loses two players while table 2 is still full, you're going to have to move one player from table 2 to keep the tables balanced.
How to choose who moves is done by moving the player who is in (or closest to) the same position relative to the button. So if the open seat is in the cut-off on table 1, you want to move the player from the cut-off on table 2.
This keeps players from having to pay blinds twice, or not at all.
Breaking a Table
If you lose enough players to be able to merge one table with another (or multiple others), it's time to break the table. How to choose who sits where is done by drawing for the open seats.
If you're moving everyone onto one final table, typically all players, including those already seated at the table, draw for their seat. If you don't have seat cards, just use the deck counting lowest from highest, starting left of the dealer.
Can a Player Cash Out Half of Their Chips?
A player in a cash game has to play with all of their chips, or none. Cashing out part of your stack (also known as going south) is against the rules, and considered very poor etiquette.
If you would like to cash out only part of your chips, you must cash out your entire stack, and wait the set amount of time before taking your seat again.
This is known as recycling. The amount of time to wait changes depending on where you're playing, but I've never seen it lower than 30 minutes (the default online recycle timeframe).
Can a Player Purchase More Chips Off Another Player?
This is never a good idea. It's essentially the same concept as going south. The table loses the amount of chips the new player would be buying in for.
Always buy your chips from the dealer or the house. In a home game, one person should be in charge of all financial transactions.
Card Boxed in the Deck
If a boxed card (a card face up in the stub) is encountered at any time during a hand, the card is removed from the deck and shown to every player. The deal continues as if nothing went wrong.
If multiple cards are boxed, the dealer continues to remove the boxed cards until he reaches a facedown card to continue the deal.
If the stub runs short of nonboxed cards, the hand is declared dead, with all chips being returned to their original stacks as accurately as possible.
Cards Dealt Before All Players Have Acted
If the dealer burns and turns fourth street while a player has yet to make their flop decision, the play is temporarily halted. The dealer takes the turn card and puts it back into the stub, shuffling the entire stub sufficiently.
Once the deck is shuffled, and the player has made his final flop action, the top card is turned over as the new turn (there has already been a card burned for this street).
Card Exposed While Dealing
When dealing hole cards, if the first or second card you deal is exposed (the face value was seen by someone at the table), the hand is a misdeal, meaning the cards are reshuffled and the deal starts over (the dealer button stays in the same place).
If a card other than the first or second is exposed, the dealer continues to deal as if nothing had gone wrong. When the deal finishes, he give the top card on the deck to the player with the flashed card, and takes back the exposed card.
That card is then turned face up and shown to everyone at the table, and put on the top of the deck to be used as the first burn card.
If two cards are exposed while dealing, the hand is considered a misdeal.
Card Marked
When noticing a single badly marked card in play, first play out the hand normally. When the hand is complete you'll want to replace that marked card with a new one of the same value, or just grab a new deck.
If you don't have a new deck and are stuck with the one you have, your best bet is to remove the card from the game, making sure everyone is aware that the card is no longer in play.
It's better for everyone to know that no one has the card than for everyone to know when someone does have the card.
Dealer Deals an Extra Hand or a Hand to a Seat with No Player
In this scenario, as long as no one looks at the extra hand, it's folded as a dead hand, and play continues as usual.
How Long Can a Player Wait Before Choosing to Rebuy?
After a player loses all of their chips, they must choose whether or not to rebuy before the next hand is dealt.
In a home game there is room for lenience on this issue, just as long as the player isn't doing it on purpose to gain some sort of advantage.
Is a Single Over-Value Chip Considered a Raise or a Call?
By putting in one over-value chip without saying anything, it is always considered a call. For example, if the big blind is $25 and you're first to act, putting in a $100 chip without actually saying "raise" is considered a call.
The more lenient atmosphere of a home game means the dealer will typically ask the player what they actually wanted to do.
Player Misses a Blind (Cash Games)
A player can never come into the game between the blinds, or between the button and the blinds. This applies when moving a player in tournaments as well.
If a player misses his or her blind in a cash game, they're not allowed to be dealt into a hand until the button has passed by them to the player on their left (it's treated as if there is no player sitting there). When the button has passed, they must post the amount equal to the blinds they missed.
For example, with blinds of $1/$2, a player who misses the big blind (therefore forcing them to also miss the small blind), they must post $3 to be dealt into the hand.
A small-blind post is always considered dead, meaning it goes into the pot and does not count toward any action in the hand, while the big-blind portion of the post is live, meaning it does count.
A player with a live post still receives option to check or raise when it's their turn to act in the hand.
Buying the button: Buying the button is allowed in some locations during a cash game. This means that when a player sits down on the button, they have the option to pay both the small and big blind in place of the players with whom the responsibility lies.
This allows the player to play on the button, rather than having to wait for it to pass them the next hand.
Player Misses a Blind (Tournaments)
In a tournament, every stack gets dealt a hand regardless of a player being in the seat or not. When the last card is dealt to a player for the hand, the hands without players are mucked.
Players not present during their blinds have the blinds posted for them from their stacks, referred to as blinding out.
Player's Stack Size Less Than the Blind
When a player's stack is less than the amount of the small blind, they are automatically considered all-in in the next hand they play, regardless of position.
If the player's stack is larger than the small blind but smaller than the big blind, they will be considered all-in in any position other than the small blind, assuming they fold for their option.
When all-in, the player can only win the amount of their stack, plus that same amount from all of the callers and blinds. If the person has less than the big blind, they can only win the portion of the blind equal to that of their stack.
Removing Smaller Chips from Play
When the blinds increase in a tournament, eventually the smaller-value chips will become obsolete. Once the chips are no longer needed, they are chipped up to the next denomination.
First, make sure the chips are no longer needed (don't forget to check for antes in the future blind levels). If the blinds are $500/$1,000 doubling, you have no need for any chips smaller than $500 on the table.
Change as many low-value chips as you can into higher values and hold on to the remainder. For example, if you have ten $25 chips, you will receive two $100 chips and have two $25 chips left over.
Chip racing: The standard way to remove the odd low-value chips is a chip race (this is how it's done in all major tournaments such as the WSOP).
First the dealer adds up the total amount of odd chips on the table to determine the amount of larger-value chips up for grabs. For example, if there are 13 $25 chips on the table, they bring four $100 chips to take their place.
The dealer starts at the player to their left, dealing them as many cards as they have odd chips face up (if they have three $25 chips, they get three cards), until everyone with $25 chips has a card to represent each of them.
Each available chip is given to the players with the highest-valued show card, with each player being allowed to win only one chip. In a case of a tie in rank, suits are used to determine a winner.
Rounding up: To save time, some tournaments will round up all leftover chips to the higher value. Regardless of having one $25 chip or three $25 chips, you will receive one $100 chip in their place.
Suit Rankings
In poker, the official suit ranking goes with the official Bridge ranking system, which is alphabetical. From worst to best:
Clubs, Diamonds, Hearts, Spades
Turn-Dealing Mistakes
Turn is dealt without burning: When the dealer deals the turn card without burning, that card is simply treated as a flash card. The dealer makes sure all players see the card before turning it face down as the burn card, dealing the real turn as normal.
Two burn cards dealt when dealing the turn: In the case of a dealer burning two cards, and turning over a third as the turn, that third card is treated as a flashed card, and is returned to the top of the deck as the burn for the river. The second burn card is turned face up, since it is the valid turn card.
Two cards are burnt and two cards are shown when dealing the turn: The proper way to resolve this rare scenario is as follows. The second burn card (the official, should be turn) is placed face down on the top of the deck. The first up card (the would-be river burn card) is treated as a flash card and turned face down.
The second show card is the official river. It is now played as it lies on the turn instead. When action completes on the turn, the top card is turned over without burning for the river.
By doing it in this fashion, all cards put in play are the original cards that would have fallen if no mistake had occurred. There is no change to the results, and only one card gets exposed.
**********
Anything else you're wondering about? Post a question in the comments and I'll add it to this list. If you request it, I'll even send you an e-mail letting you know when it's up!
Comment(s) on this article
John Oct 4, 2008
ok, i have A,K
My opp has A,K
the others are
A,A,K,2,6
Who wins?
Sean Lind Oct 7, 2008
Haha, we really need a specific section for these questions.
John: You and your opponent both have the same hand. Unless one of you hit a flush, you get to chop up the pot (split it equally between the two of you) If there is an odd chip, it goes to the player in the earliest position.
Alicia Dec 30, 2008
What about this scenario:
I have A, 8
My opp has A,5
Table shows A A K 2 6
We both have trip Aces, but does the high card 8 take it, or is the pot split?
Sean Lind Dec 31, 2008
Alicia, all poker hands are always compiled using the best possible five card combination.
You have:
A-A-A-K-8
While your opponent has:
A-A-A-K-6
Since the 8 beats the 6, you are the sole winner of the hand. If the board was A-A-2-K-J, then the best five card hand for both of you would be A-A-A-K-J, meaning the pot would be split.
Tom Jan 3, 2009
Ok i have Q,7
my opp has Q,J
The flop,turn,and river have
9,3,3,8,A
Who wins?
Sean Lind Jan 3, 2009
Tom, you posted a question on another article. The cards were slightly different, but the answer to the question is the same, so I'll just cut and paste:
Tom: You started by saying that you need to make the best five card hand, but in your assessment you only used three cards.
Board: A-3-3-4-7
Player 1: QJ
Player 2: Q9
Player one's hand: A-3-3-Q-J
Player two's hand: A-3-3-Q-9
Basically, you follow down the hand until there's a difference, in this scenario all cards are the same until the fifth card, the third kicker. Jack is higher than a nine, so player one wins the entire pot.
Only if ALL 5 CARDS are the same will the pot be chopped.
lisa Jan 11, 2009
Hi wat hand wins on the table A club 9 spade queen clubs 3 clubs and 4 clubs
player 1 q spades and 9 clubs
player 2 q hearts and 8 clubs
so both have a flush does the 9 beat the 8 with the ace on the table or is it a split pot cheers
Sean Lind Jan 13, 2009
Hey Lisa, the hand with the highest club wins (since you have to make a hand out of the best 5 cards.) You use all five cards to evaluate the value of the hand.
The only way it would be a split pot on a flush, is if the board had five clubs, and neither player had a club HIGHER than any of the clubs on the board.
john dawson Jan 13, 2009
PLAYERS STACK LESS THAN BIG BLIND AGIANST 2 OTHER PLAYERS - I understand the pot sharing logic, but what is the commitment of the remaining players. Are they committed to create an additional pot with the balance of the big blind or can they opt to only contribute the same amount to the "side pot" as the small stacked player & bet no further. I argue that as they have sufficient chips they must honour the big blind rule and are committed to create a second pot with the balance of the big blinds even if they then check round. THANKS, JOHN
Sean Lind Jan 14, 2009
john dawson, you are correct. Regardless of how many chips the big blind has, any player wanting to call preflop, must put in the amount of the complete big blind.
The only exception is if the whole table folds to the small blind, obviously the small blind only has to match the bet, since any side pot money they would win anyways.
LANNA SOUTH Jan 18, 2009
OK ON THE BOARD IS A,Q,5,5,3 P1hasQ,3 P2hasQ,9 whowins? Both players have Q,Q,5,5 but player one also has a pair of 3 so does it count who has the high card or who has the higher hand after the Q's and 5's are out?
Sean Lind Jan 20, 2009
LANNA SOUTH:
The Board is: A,Q,5,5,3
P1 has Q,3
P2 has Q,9
Both players have Q-Q-5-5-A, making it a split pot. People will jokingly say that Player 1 has three pair, unfortunately for them, three pair is only as good as the best two pair of the three.
Since the ace is the best kicker on the two pair, it's a split pot.
Redd Feb 2, 2009
PLAYER CALLS THE WRONG HAND.
This just happened a few days ago,
What if, there are 2 players left in a hand, it goes to the river. One player says he has a pair, the other player says he has a straight. beats the other guys pair and starts grabbing the chips.
but another player (who is not in the hand) tells the guy with the pair, that he actually has a flush, which he didn't notice. then he takes the chips...
we all thought that was wrong to do... once you call a hand and someone calls a better hand, you lose.
Sean Lind Feb 3, 2009
Hey Redd, when a player turns their hand over (face up) on the table, it's a live hand, meaning no matter what they say they have, cards talk. If he thinks he only has a pair, but has a flush, he has a flush.
As for a player not in the hand bringing it up, that's kind of an issue. Technically the dealer should call the hands, and should correct the player and ship the pot to the correct player.
If you're at a game without a professional dealer, then it's slightly poor form to speak up, but it's not a huge etiquette infraction, since the player DID have the winning hand, the pot should be theirs.
Don't speak up yourself, but don't get mad when someone else does.Either way, once someone does speak up, the pot is always awarded to the player with the best hand, in this case the flush.
tony Feb 17, 2009
im in a no limit hold em game in the small blind. 5-10 blinds. lets say player A raises the big blind to 40. player B goes all in behind him for 50. rest of players fold to me. do i still have option to reraise for more over the 50 (which of course wasnt a legal sized raise) or am i stuck being able to only call the 50? i assume i still have the option to raise what i want to by being in the small blind and havent had the chance to act on my hand yet. is this legal to raise?
Big papa pott Feb 17, 2009
Table has a straight
9,10,J,Q,K
Player 1; J,8
Player 2; Q,7
Who wins? As straight on table already and no other cards can be used due to 5 cards?
Sean Lind Feb 18, 2009
Tony, you're correct. You have the option to raise, call or fold.
If you just call, the big blind only has option to call or fold. If you do choose to raise, the big blind has option to do whatever again.
Sean Lind Feb 18, 2009
Big Papa Pott:
It's a split pot, both players have the same hand.
-sean
big papa pott Feb 18, 2009
Thanks for that sean, one last thing, if player 1 had A,8 would he then win due to having a higher straight, or because of the straight already out on table does it mean nowt?
Ta
Sean Lind Feb 19, 2009
You're correct with the former. Any player holding an ace now has the nut straight, and would beat any player not holding an ace.
Remember, in Hold'em it's always the BEST five card hand you can make, using any combination of board cards and your hand.
Lorie Mar 3, 2009
I actually have 2 questions. In the poker league I play in, if you bet or call out of turn you must fold your hand and chips are lost. Is this a poker rule? If so, 1 player calls out of turn and 2 more follow him. Do they all have to muck? Thanks
Sean Lind Mar 4, 2009
Wow, that first rule is ridiculous Lorie. I have never heard of anything that strict for playing out of turn. Typically the rules for out of turn play are as follows:
The player playing out of turn is committed to betting a minimum of the amount of chips bet out of turn, for example if a player raises out of turn, and the player before him just calls, the out of turn player MUST make the same raise.
If the player before the out of turn player raises, then the out of turn player can call or re-raise (most places won't let a player fold here, but some will).
I've even played in a place where playing out of turn meant you lost option, and could only check/call when action was on you. Even that is sort of dumb, but a forced muck is fundamentally wrong.
As for the second question, player 1 raises out of turn, and two players call, those bets are locked into play, meaning if the player to act folds or calls no players will get an option, play will resume to the left of the second call.
In your league the two players who called should not be deemed at fault, since they were following the player to their right. There is no way these two players should be penalized because another player messed up.
Jason Mar 4, 2009
We played a game last night and the flop was dealt with a raise on the draw before the last 2 people acted person acted (one of which was the dealer) and the betting already begun for the flop.
I said the fair way was to have the 2 people who did not bet muck the cards because the person who misdealt anyway was the dealer and just let the other two play the pot. The person skipped after the dealer said the hand altogethor should be mucked. We ended up just playing the hands as is but I told them I really believe that they should have mucked. I saw other rules on this and I saw if the turn is dealt prematurely then it is reshuffled into the deck a new burn is dealt, does this go the same for the flop?
daniel carter Mar 4, 2009
what is considered a fold ?
Sean Lind Mar 4, 2009
Jason, Absolutely. If the flop is flopped before a player has had a chance to act, the flop cards are returned to the deck, the deck shuffled; Preflop play resumes. Once preflop play has concluded the dealer brings down the "new flop"
Sean Lind Mar 4, 2009
Daniel, I'm not exactly sure what you mean? A fold is when a player says "fold" or throws their hand away.
If the player is still holding on to their cards, then they have not technically folded, unless they say the words "I fold" or "I pass".
kira Mar 21, 2009
if one player raises and the other matches and calls can the first player raise again or do they have to show there hand
Sean Lind Mar 24, 2009
Kira:
A betting round ends when two conditions are met:
1) All players have had the chance to act at least once
2) all players have the same amount of money wagered.
Once player 1 bets and player two raises, player 1 is now able to fold, call or raise.
If player one just calls, the betting round is over.
If player one had bet and player two just called, that would also end the betting round.
lester Mar 30, 2009
In the table:
Ah Jh 6h 2h 9h
I don't know if:
There's no winner because everybody have the same flush (A higher)
or
If someone has, for example, 3h is the winner
Sean Lind Mar 31, 2009
Lester, whomever had the highest heart in their hand will win the pot, unless their heart isn't high enough to beat one of the hearts on the board.
Each player plays their best five card hand, each card of those five count. In your example, if a player holds the 3h (or any heart) they will win (assuming no one else has a higher heart).
If no one has a heart, everyone splits the pot.
xXx-J-Lee-xXx Mar 31, 2009
Ok, i play a lot of no limit hold em on full tilt poker and i have a question about 2 hands
board = 5 j Q K A keep in mind i did review the hands to make sure they didn't beat me with a flush or any other hand it was stated in the play log winner was strait or 3 of a kind i thought that 3 of a kind beats a strait anytime......
p1 = 10,3
p2 = 5,5
winner was p2
this hand however
example* board = 5 j Q K A
p1 = 10,3
p2 = Q,Q
in this senerio on full tilt p1 won with strait
this is not an exact replica of hand but i have had numerous hands like these and sometimes 3 of a kind wins and sometimes the strait wins can someone explain this to me!!!!! < for as far as i can see if one of the 3 pair was used in the strait the strait would win, where as the player had 3 of a kind and the other player had a strait that didn't share one of the three of a kinds cards the 3 of a kind would win.> is this true or am i getting cheated online by a bug in the game play
Sean Lind Mar 31, 2009
J Lee, you're getting yourself a little confused. A straight always beats three of a kind, always. BUT if the board pairs when someone has three of a kind, then they have a full house and they beat the straight. For example:
board = 5 j Q K A
p1 = 10,3
p2 = 5,5
Player one wins here with a straight (10 - A)
board = j j Q K A
p1 = 10,3
p2 = Q,Q
In this hand Player two wins having a full house Q-Q-Q-J-J
You where mistaken in your first example when you thought that player two would have won. Online poker moves so quickly that these little mistakes can be easy to make.
Lance Apr 7, 2009
In this situation the player next to be the big blind is knocked out in the previous hand . What happens to the big blind or for that matter the person is the big blind and is to be the small blind in the next hand, but is knocked out in the hand he is the big blind
Sean Lind Apr 8, 2009
Hey lance, if the player NEXT to be the big blind busts it's simple, you just continue on as if that player was never at the table, the player to their left taking the big blind next.
If the player plays the big blind and busts, the rules change depending on if you're in a tournament or cash game:
Tournament:
The seat remains unfilled and for this hand there is no small blind. Button, nothing, big blind.
The next hand the button is "dead" meaning it sits in the empty seat where the player was, big and small blinds being as you'd expect.
Cash Game:
This is where it gets a little tricky. Every player in a cash game has to pay the small and big blind once an orbit. So, after the big blind busts it now goes:
Button
Nothing
Big blind
Big blind.
(yes, there are two big blinds).
When that hand plays out the button skips over the empty seat to the player who was the first big blind:
Button (with a small blind on top of the button)
Small blind
Big blind
After this everything is back to normal.
Will Apr 11, 2009
Hello , When playing poker when it comes down to the river for example player 1 makes a raise and player 2 calls and it turns out that player 1 wins and turns his cards over . Then player 2 says he cant beat player 1 hand but dont turn his cards over . Is player 1 untittled to see player 2 hand ???
thank you if can aswer
Sean Lind Apr 14, 2009
Will:
The rule here is that player 1 can request to see player 2's hand, since it is a "called hand".
BUT
It is considered extremely poor etiquette to do so. I highly recommend you never request to see another player's hand, as it's really bad form.
Marcos Apr 15, 2009
3 players on the table - "A" is small, "B" is big blind and "C" is the button. B lefts the game. In the next round (heads-up), "C" becomes the big and "A" the small & button.
Question: "A" player post the small bet again?
Anthony Apr 20, 2009
I was just wondering if you show your hand to one player do you have to show all? (show one show all) I heard its more of a house rule but whats the official rule on that?
Anthony Apr 20, 2009
Marcos:
This isnt a question i read Marcos post and the answer is no. Player A has the button and player C is big alone.
Sean Lind Apr 25, 2009
Hey Marcos, this is kind of a tricky situation because the blinds are "reversed" once you get into heads up.
Assuming player B left before this hand was dealt, Player C remains the button. Since Player C has the button Player C needs to post the Small blind, while Player A is the big blind.
The button is deemed more valuable than the blinds, thus it would give Player A more of an advantage to give him the button than to allow Player C to "skip" one Big Blind.
Sean Lind Apr 25, 2009
Anthony, Show one show all is almost 100% universal now. I have never sat in a poker room that doesn't enforce this rule. Even most private games I've played at use it.
There really is no official set of rules regarding etiquette, since all poker rooms have their own slight interpretations. But show one show all is universal enough to be assumed as a firm rule.
Albert May 3, 2009
I have 3 players in on the flop...player a is all in, player b & c still have chips...on the turn, player b bets (separate pot for player b & c) and player c folds. Does player c still have action on the first pot that player a was all in on or by folding does he forfeit the entire round?
Frank May 4, 2009
Hi Sean,
The following situation creates a lot of confusion in our home game:
player 1 bets 100
player 2 raises all in for 10,000
player 3 calls with 8,000
player 1 has a stack of 20,000
First of all: is there a rule that says that you cannot raise a player when he has raised or called all in?
If so, does it conflict here with the rule that you can go all in at any time? In the situation described above player 1 should not be able to raise player 2 anymore, because player 3 is already all in.
Yet he could shove all in with his 20k aiming for the 10k of player 2.
Frank May 4, 2009
Sorry,
One correction in the situation:
player 2 raises to 10,000, he has 10,000 left in his stack
player 3 calls for 8,000 (for all of his chips)
So to sum up:
player 1 bets 100
player 2 raises to 10k
player 3 calls for 8k (all in)
player 1 has a stack of 20k
Can player 1 only call for 8k or raise to 20k?
adam May 4, 2009
p1 8-10 the flop is 8-10-9-9-6
p2 K-K
who wins?
Frank May 5, 2009
Player 2 wins.
Player 1 has two pairs: 10-10-9-9-8
Player 2 has two pairs: K-K-9-9-10
Both players have two pairs but player 2 has the higher one.
Sean Lind May 5, 2009
Albert,
Once a player folds, they are out of the hand completely. You can't fold out of just a side pot.
Sean Lind May 5, 2009
Hey Frank.
All in's have no affect on whether or not you're allowed to raise.
Player one bets $100
Player two raises to $10k. This re-opens the betting round for player one, meaning he now has option again.
Player three goes all in.
Player one still has option, regardless of what player three decided to do.
Player one can fold, call (has to call the $10k making a $4k side pot for player's one and two), or re-raise. A minimum re-raise would be to $19,900 (so he might as well go all-in if he wants to raise).
Hope that helps.
Sean Lind May 5, 2009
Hey Adam, Frank answered your question nicely.
This scenario is known as being counterfeit. Player one's two pair is counterfeit by the higher pair on the board.
Mischa May 8, 2009
Following situation:
Heads up, Player 1 raises, Player 2 calls,
Flop is dealt (what doesn´t matter),
Player 1 bets, Player 2 calls,
Turn is dealt, Player 1 bets, Player 2 calls,
River is dealt,
again Player 1 bets and 2 calls.
As the dealer announces showdown, Player one mucks his cards. Player 2 says that he plays the board.
Does Player 2 has to show his hand to claim the Pot or is it enough to play the board?
Sean Lind May 8, 2009
Mischa,
The rule in almost all cardrooms, is that you need to show two cards to win a pot at showdown.
When one player mucks, only the other player can win the pot, but you still are required to show the hand in most all rooms.
It's kind of a moot point, since whatever he shows will be the winner.
Tosh May 17, 2009
hi,
My question is, if i am chip leader and i want to go all-in against the short stack, can i ask him for a chip count before i go all-in? There is no dealer, therefore does the short stack have to answer or is he entitled not to give me a chip count or does some other player act as a dealer and count his chips for me?
thnx.
renan May 17, 2009
the scenario is like this
P1 have a 7 and 9
P2 have 4 and 8
the table shows
4,8,7,K&K
who wins?
thanks!
Sean Lind May 19, 2009
Hey Tosh, this is sort of an interesting scenario:
Firstly, when there is a professional dealer at the table, a player has the right to choose not to answer the question "How much do you have left".
Now, they MUST clearly show their stack, and all high valued chips must be clearly displayed in FRONT of the rest of their chips.
Also, with a professional dealer, if the player really wants a count, it's the dealer's job to make that count (if the Short stacked player refuses to answer).
That being said, it's considered polite to answer this question when it's asked of you. It's not a breach of etiquette to not reply, but since the player will get the information either way, why not save everyone the time and answer.
Finally, if you have no dealer at the table, then it is up to another player at the table to count the chips (typically the player acting as the dealer for that hand, unless that's either of the players in the scenario).
This can cause friction with "I don't want you touching my chips", but it is your right to get a count, so the short stack can either answer, or they have to let someone else cut their stack down and count.
Sean Lind May 19, 2009
Renan,
Player 2 wins in that scenario.
P1's best 5 card hand: KK779
P2's best 5 card hand: KK887
Since the top pair is the same between both players (They both have KK), you use the second pair to evaluate the winner. Since P2 has 88, better over P1's 77, P2 wins.
Joe Cloutier May 22, 2009
If two players in 'heads up play' both make a flush in diamonds, and the highest card of the flush is on the board, do both players split the pot, or do you look to each player's second highest valued card within their flush to decide the winner?
Sean Lind May 22, 2009
Joe, you have to evaluate all five cards of the flush. If both players share the Ace and King of diamonds, but one player has the Queen in their hand, while the other only has the jack, the Queen wins the entire pot.
Vince May 22, 2009
Here's an interesting situation that happened in a recent friendly poker game.
3 players we're in the hand, river had just been turned. One player bet a BIG amount, the person next to him was counting his chips as the river turned. Accidentaly, the next dealer picked up all the cards thinking the hand was over(there was a lot of chit chat going on).
The player who bet big had a straight on the turn. The player who was counting his chips never saw the river(and didnt have anything). The third player was waiting his turn.
Although 2 out of 3 of the players(as well as the dealer who was no longer involved in the hand) agreed on what the river card was(and the rest of the community cards), the player who didnt see the river insisted it be a misdeal and that everyone take their chips back. Thats what ended up happening. My take on this is that he should of just took the other players word for what the river was and gone to showdown if he wanted to call.
What should of happened in your opinion?
Thanks in advance.
Sean Lind May 23, 2009
Hey Vince, this has two possible resolutions, neither of which are giving players their chips back. That is almost never the correct thing to do... there has to be a gross flaw in the integrity of the game, such as there being two King of hearts on the board.
In your situation, the player "should" have taken the other players word on what the river was (in a card room the dealer would call the pit over, and if he could say with confidence what the river was, it would most likely stand).
If he didn't want to accept their word for what the card was (totally ok to do), the proper solution is to put the first four cards back out (including burn cards if possible), then reshuffle the remaining deck, bringing a new river.
Actually, if the new dealer picked up mucked hands, and mixed them into the stub, there is no way to make a "fair" river. In this case the chips would have to go back to the players if both players can't agree on the river card.
Darshwood May 25, 2009
are there any official rules of play that involve stacking your chips in colored order or can someone actually let a big pile of unorganized chips sit in front of them throughout the game?
babyhuewie May 25, 2009
player 1 has J 3
player 2 has j 2the cards are
j 4 6 8 9
who wins or do we split it
eric May 26, 2009
afther the river player one checks player 2 raises and player 3 calls then p1 folds can p2 folds also without showing their cards to p3
is p2 allow to fold without a showdown when he was the one who raised and was pay to show ????
Sean Lind May 26, 2009
Darshwood, the rules state that you're not allowed to hide the total number of chips you have. This means you need to have your chips in stacks, and high-value chips must be in front of the rest (or on top).
It's up to you how many chips are in a stack, and you're allowed to mix up colors if you please.
Basically you just can't hide chips, or play from a pile.
Sean Lind May 26, 2009
Babyhuewie,
You have to make the best five card hand. Since neither of your kickers beats anything on board, the best 5 card hand you can both make is:
J J 9 8 6
It's a split pot.
Sean Lind May 26, 2009
Eric,
Ok, if player 2 wants to contest this pot, and thinks he has a chance at winning, technically it's on him to show is hand first.
But, if he was making a stone cold bluff, and gets called. He's more than able to simply throw his hand away and concede the pot to player 3.
Technically player 3 can request to see player 2's hand, but it's considered a serious breach of etiquette to do so.
jole May 27, 2009
hi,can some1 solve me this one...
on the table:
k 5 10 2 2
p1 has k 10
p2 has A 4
who wins?????
THANKS!!
jole May 27, 2009
missprint
p2 has A A
so table shows
K 5 10 2 2
p1 has 10 K
p2 has A A
who wins the pot?thnx
Sean Lind May 28, 2009
Jole, in a 2 pair versus 2 pair, you always compare the high pair to the high pair, then if those are the same, the second pair to the second pair.
P1 - K K 10 10 5
P2- A A 2 2 K
Since AA is higher than KK, that's all we need to know. Player 2 wins.
Matthew Ackley May 28, 2009
Two players All In preflop AcKh vs As10c
flop comes K62 turn 5 river 9 AK thinks he wins dealers scoops cards and another player at the table says A10 had a flush...As the tournament director I come over and 3 people say no flush 2 people say flush. The muck pile was off by 2 cards only 13 should have had 15 because 6 players in hand folded and 3 burns...I decided to shuffle all cards except AK A10 and deal new board is this correct the A10 guy said it should be a dead hand and chop. But since the action was allin preflop i figured it couldnt be a chop
Howza May 28, 2009
If I'm last to act and go all in. Then everyone folds apart from one player, can i only double up or do I have a claim to the blinds and any bets already placed before the players folded??
Sean Lind May 29, 2009
Hey Matthew,
These situations are the ones with no cut and dry solution. No matter what, it's messy.
Once the cards had all been mucked, it's impossible to rebuild the hand accurately without being able to go to the cameras, since most places don't have cameras at every table, and you can't really shut down a tourney to review one pot, this is rarely an option.
If the dealer has no idea if A10 had a flush or not, and there is no way to accurately re-construct the board, I agree that (in a tournament) the two hands should be fished out, the cards shuffled, and the board run again.
I'd just explain before hand what the scenario is, and what was going to happen. Run the board and ship the chips.
no matter what you do, someone is going to be upset here.
I guess chopping the pot isn't a bad option either, but I don't like it.
Sean Lind May 29, 2009
Howza,
All blinds and folded money become part of the main pot, meaning you get to win that as well.
But, this is assuming your all in was worth more than these bets.
For example:
blinds 100-200
two players limp
you move all in for $1000
One player calls, everyone else folds.
Everything in that pot you can win, the whole $2700.
in this scenario:
blinds 500-1000
One player limps
you go all in for $500
Another player moves all in, everyone else folds.
You can only win $500 from every bet out there
Small blind, big blind, the limp, and the player who went all in.
$2500 pot including your own money. Everything else goes to the player who went all in against you.
Howza May 29, 2009
Thank you Sean
Alan May 29, 2009
Hi Sean,
great info for poker newbies, thanks! :-)
JOE CATALANO Jun 3, 2009
if u have a stack of chips in your hand and go to raise , and release those that chip indervidually without calling the raise. is that a string bet ? Also if u announce a raise3 but not the amount and release your chips that way is that a string bet ?
Sean Lind Jun 4, 2009
Joe, this topic is not universally agreed apon. Some people claim that any chips that cross the line, must stay across the line.
Most poker rooms in the state of Washington work this way. So once your handfull of chips are across the line, it doesn't matter how you let them go, because all of them are "bet" anyways.
In the regular world, what you're describing is fine. A string bet is called when a player puts chips across the line, then returns back to their stack making their betting two unique motions.
What you describe is one continuous, yet drawn out, motion. It's not technically a string bet... but it is a little douschey to do.
SpeedyBD Jun 7, 2009
Sean,
Great service. Thanks!
You have hit on this question here and there but I would like to get clarification with a few questions.
Is the last person to make a bet/raise the first person that must reveal their cards in a showdown?
If so, is it then clockwise from the last bettor for anyone else who wishes to contend the pot? I realize that typically this is not an issue, but on many occasions those calling wish to see the bettor's hand and if those calling have lost, they want the option to muck.
As described in an earlier Q&A, if out of three players and after the river the bettor and one of the two callers both muck their hands, why should the last caller being now the only one holding a live hand, reveal their cards after the showdown?
Thanks!
SpeedyBD Jun 7, 2009
Two questions/scenarios, same State...
State:
Post Flop (betting on flop) Player 3 has dealer button
Blinds 1K and 2K
Player 1 - 8K in chips
Player 2 - 10K in chips
Player 3 - 800 in chips
Betting:
P1 - Checks
P2 - Checks
P3 - All in with 800 chips (not meeting minimum big blind bet)
Q1 - As P1 and P2 checked prior to P3's all in less than minimum bet, may P1 call the 800, then P2 call the 800 and then begin on 4th street with a potential side pot? Or must P1 and P2 meet the big blind minimum bet creating a 2400K side pot?
Q2 - Less than 50% rule on raises?... Same setup with P2 wanting to raise...
Betting:
P1 Checks
P2 - Checks
P3 - All in with 800 Chips (less than 50% of minimum big blind)
P1 Calls 800
P2 - Now wants to go all in against P1 with the 10K.
Because P3 who was last to act brings action to the table with such a minimal all in bet after P1 and P2 checks, and then P1 calls P3's small all in (or meets the BB depending on your answer to Q1), is not the information gained by P2 about P1 unfair due to a low bet commitment by P3's short stack all in? Isn't there a rule that if there are checks all around to an all in bet less than 50% of the minimum bet requires only the option of a call or fold and does not allow for a raise?
Thanks!
Sean Lind Jun 9, 2009
Hey Speedy,
let's work on your first question first:
On the river, the last person to bet or raise is the first person required to open their hand on showdown (regardless of the number of callers).
After that first person opens, each player must open in sequence Clockwise around the table.
The only exception here is if someone shows out of turn, anyone can muck their hand at any time.
In a situation where everyone mucks their hands on showdown leaving only one player with live cards, technically that player wins the pot without having to show. But, most poker rooms have a rule that "You need to show to cards to win at showdown". They don't make an exception to this rule in this situation, forcing you to show both your cards.
Sean Lind Jun 9, 2009
Speedy,
Ok, your second post.
Q1: If a player has enough chips to do so, all of their actions must be in complete bets. Player's 1 and two must call $2000, leaving a $2400 side pot.
Q2: In this situation, players 1 and 2 can only call.
The first thing to clear up is the 50% rule. There is no such thing in No-Limit. the 50% rule is a limit rule only, anyone using it in a No-Limit game is incorrect.
Once a player checks or calls, they are no longer allowed to raise any bet less than that of a complete bet.
If you took the same example, but you switched the stacks of player 2 and player 3, when player 2 goes all in, player 3 can raise any amount he wants.
If player 3 just calls, player 1 can only call, they checked before the only bet, and even though they must call $2000 (and the original bet was only $800) they are still not allowed to raise.
Speedybd Jun 9, 2009
Sean,
Awesome, exactly what I needed. Interesting to know about the 50% rule only being in Limit play, but it makes sense. It makes the no-limit scenario much more cut and dry.
Thanks Again!!!
Sean Lind Jun 10, 2009
You're welcome Speedy. Any more questions you come up with, just post them in the comments.
-S
christhecat Jun 14, 2009
player1 goes all in after the river
player 2 umms and ahhs for 5 minutes then turns his cards over not declaring any bet or fold or placing any chips.
player 1 throws his cards onto table revealing all in bluff and thinks he has won as player 2 has not bet therefore folding.? a fight ensues mayhem follows.any help on who was right please sean
Sean Lind Jun 16, 2009
Hey ChrisKitty,
This depends on the house rule for exposing cards. In most poker rooms these days, turning over your hand kills your hand, forfeiting the pot. If that's the rule here, Player 1 should win the pot, no content.
In the world of real poker, where every player is allowed to do what they like with their own two cards, you can show your cards heads-up whenever you like. If this is the rule in the house, showing his cards has not committed him to any action. He can then make the call once he sees the bluff turned over and take the pot.
christhecat Jun 21, 2009
thanks for the clarification sean
meeoww;)
Andrew Jun 24, 2009
Really sorry if my question has been asked, there are just so many I couldn't read them all =].
Scenario.
Player 1 has : 10, 2
Player 2 has : 8, 6
the table looks like : 10, J, Q, K, A
The highest hand is on the table, the straight, there is not a flush draw.
Now my question is does player one take the pot because he has a straight with his hand (the 10), or do both players split?
Thanks a ton, this has come up multiple times in games and me and friends are never sure how to work it out (we mostly just split).
Sean Lind Jun 24, 2009
Andrew,
In your question both players split the pot. In Hold'em, you make the best five card hand using any of the 7 cards available to you. That's the only rule for making your hand.
In your scenario both players use the board cards (known as "playing the board"), since that's the best possible 5-card hand, it doesn't matter what the players hold in the hole.
steve Jun 24, 2009
In tournament play what happens when the person who is to be the big blind next hand goes out?
h3lp n3w pok3rplay3r Jun 25, 2009
player one: Jack spade and 8 of club
player two : Ace space a10 hearts
TABLE 8- 8- 6- Q- 10
ALL SPADES AND ONE 8 OF DIAMOND
WHO WINS????
Sean Lind Jun 25, 2009
Steve,
One of two things happen:
A) they move someone from another table into that seat
or more commonly, they just skip the seat, and the player who was supposed to be under the gun is the big blind that hand, small blind where it should be.
Sean Lind Jun 25, 2009
Hey help,
Player two wins with the nut flush, he has the ace high flush, while player one has a jack high flush.
Leave a comment