How Not to Suck at Poker: Discuss the Game

Guess who's getting the better deal out of this exchange?

By: Sean Lind

The finale in our 10-part series for the beginner Texas Hold'em player, this article looks at talking about poker away from the table - one of the most profitable things you can ever do.

Anyone who has spent time playing sports will tell you this: they almost always perform best when playing against or with someone much better than themselves.

Unfortunately, it's hard to raise your own poker game simply by playing against better players.

Most of the decisions players make at the table are done privately. You can't emulate another player when you have no idea what they're doing and how they got to that decision.

The only way to get a glimpse into the mind of a better poker player is for that player to willingly share their thoughts and thought processes.

And a solid discussion with a better player about specific parts of the game can be more useful than any book or article.

The reason is simple: the exact questions you have are answered and there are no holes left lingering after the lesson.

Who to Look To

Although talking poker with anyone can be beneficial, certain people can offer much more insight and advice than others.

First, you want to be talking to someone who is stronger at the game or knows more than you. The discussion may be fun, but it's rare for you to pick up any useful advice from someone who knows far less than you.

Second, you need to consider the person's ability to communicate their thought process. Doing something really well, and being able to describe how you do it, are two very different things.

It's better to have a discussion with a strong $5/$10 NL player who can clearly explain his thoughts than with a tight-lipped Phil Ivey.

What to Discuss

The way the majority of humans learn best is through practice - trial and error, learning from our mistakes.

To learn from a mistake, you have to:

Make a mistake
Understand and admit it was a mistake
Figure out what the correct choice would have been
Figure out why that is the correct choice
Apply it to your game.

This mistake formula is crucial to becoming a great poker player.

Technically, you can use it with great results by yourself, but discussing with a friend, peer or coach can greatly expedite the process and make it even more successful.

Here's the key to discussing the game: the best discussions come from you bringing up a legitimate situation where you think you made a mistake.

Hypothetical situations and abstract poker theory can be good, but nailing down a specific situation you've encountered will, for most people, be much more helpful.

Take the situation with your mistake, describe it with as much detail as possible, and then discuss.

You'll be using everything you learned in the first nine steps of How Not to Suck at Poker as the building blocks of your discussion, from evaluating your hand selection to counting outs to paying attention when you're not involved in a hand.

The more mistakes you can fix using the above formula, the fewer holes you'll have in your game. And every mistake you eliminate will be one more step towards not sucking at poker.

More on How Not to Suck at Poker:

Comments

shinto
2011-06-21

play tight.. this is every poker strategists advice.. but when you play online with many maniacs you cannot figure out which hands they are playing.. you may advice to fold JJ against a preflop all in when all that guy have is Ax , JQ , KT, etc.. or even the suited connectors.. i dont think this ABC poker is viable online with those guys playing like having dealt AA, KK, QQ all the time..
FGHT FF YR DMNS
2010-11-26

Although I consider myself a skilled advanced player, I read this just to refresh myself and found most of the tips will be very usefull for beginers. Especialy the mistakes part, making mistakes is a big part in becoming a good player, learning from them is key. If you are just starting out, play lower limit cash games as much as you can, as often as you can, so that the mistakes you make wont cost you too much. There are still mistakes I make in my play that after a session I think back and recognize and address a way to fix that perticular weakness.

I want to add that although these are great tips for starting out, if you dont evolve your game and move into advanced techniques you will NOT win in the long term. So always look for new ways to play, after a while in low limits, MOVE UP! Dont be afraid!

ps. Live poker vs online is a huge difference, these tips in my opp will work best live, as you will be more timid and following a stern set of starting hands at first will help your confidence.
triqui
2009-12-02

TerryZ, you can't be wronger. All the hands you have named should be fold every time, everywhere, by everyone. And that includes most of the most aggresive pros. A Jack and Seven means Jack. Pun intended. Sure, more than 15 hands should be played. That's why there is also an article about position, and semibluff, etc. For example, you could play 44 in position, rasing to steal the Blinds, becouse even if you are called, you still have a hand. You could also try to steal "sometimes" with 89s when in position if everybody folds up to you. This article only try to tell you that if you play stupid hands such as Seven and Jack, or 62s, or if you raise in early position with KJ and call a reraise, you will find yourself broke faster you can say "sharks eat fish"
TerryZ
2009-09-15

Now I will say that many of the tips do work. I learned so much from this site after only one day. Now I will try to play a while but at first glance I suck, and I mean bad. But after reading this web site I learned how not to suck soo bad. It is a trip to me how many duces and fours make it around the table compaired to Ace King or Ace Queen hands.
TerryZ
2009-09-15

Some tips work some don't. Like trying the top 15 hands rule for beginners. I have lost countless games online waiting for those top 15 hands. If you read it, found under hands to play, it reads that beginners should only play the top 15 hands, period. I follow that rule as a beginner but then I get dealt 6 hearts and a 2 of clubs, or seven and a jack or 9 of spades and a 3 of hearts. This goes on and on while waiting for a top hand. This game is a game of chance. So most hands either have to be bluffed, and I read here not to bluff, or you have to fold 100 times to get one good hand. Why bother?
TerryZ
2009-09-15

Do you know how many hands you have to play to build up a pot just to stay in the game? So if you don't bluff at least a couple times you will always fold or over bet. I just won a hand with a six and a duce. Go figure.
This game is not so much skill as much as luck and not so much as luck but more skill. So get something that is lucky and rub it and then try to play low ball a few times. Then play this game then play pool then play darts and if you win at all of those games save up a bank roll and play poker. I just bluffed with a five and a duce. This game is too much meaning, too much like fun and weird at the same time.
Sean Lind
2009-08-20

Rupert,

The answer is both yes and no. The closer you are to the button, the more hands you can play, but you're still wanting to only stick to your legitimate starting hands. The button just allows you to make calls, or raises with hands you may have had to fold OOP.
rupert
2009-08-20

As a beginner, article one was immensley helpful, but i was under the impression that there was something of a gradutated system, so-as the closer one is to the button the more hands one bets. Is this untrue? The article on counting outs was very helpful as well.
tony
2009-08-01

a set of articales to inspire and assist the new player thankyou
tony c
Sean Lind
2009-06-17

Rray, I like that idea. I'll see what I can do. Keep your eyes peeled for it.

FYI, if it happens it won't be for a couple of weeks, lots on the go during WSOP time.
Rray
2009-06-17

Hi Sean

Thanks for an excellent series of articles.

Following on from your last post, I would like to request that you write an article on playing A-x.

I've graduated from being like a deer in head lights upon seeing an ace in my hand some time ago, to almost dreading the little fellas. They seem to be overvalued a great deal online but do win their fair share of pots.

Your insight on playing A-x (2 to Q), suited and none, would be appreciated.
TT
2009-06-12

Hey Sean, great series! Thank you very much!
YT,TT

Browse All Poker Strategy Topics